Wobbly Front Wheel
Orig. Posting Date | User Name | Edit Date |
Jul 15, 2019 02:38PM | Rosebud | |
Jul 15, 2019 01:59PM | Rosebud | |
Jun 28, 2019 04:30AM | CooperTune | |
Jun 27, 2019 09:12AM | malsal | |
Jun 26, 2019 10:49PM | Alex | |
Jun 26, 2019 09:02PM | tsumini | |
Jun 26, 2019 06:16PM | Rosebud | |
Jun 26, 2019 05:54PM | Rosebud | |
Jun 26, 2019 05:53PM | 1963SV2 | |
Jun 26, 2019 05:35PM | Rosebud | |
Jun 26, 2019 12:10AM | 1963SV2 | |
Jun 25, 2019 08:20PM | tsumini | Edited: Jun 25, 2019 09:05PM |
Jun 25, 2019 07:53PM | Rosebud | |
Jun 25, 2019 08:21AM | Alex | |
Jun 25, 2019 12:39AM | charrison | |
Jun 24, 2019 04:13PM | dklawson | Edited: Jun 24, 2019 04:16PM |
Jun 24, 2019 03:57PM | Rosebud | |
Jun 24, 2019 02:54PM | dklawson | |
Jun 24, 2019 02:34PM | Rosebud | |
Jun 24, 2019 01:43PM | dklawson | Edited: Jun 24, 2019 01:44PM |
Found 28 Messages
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There were several votes for a worn hub being the culprit, although I couldn't see how the wobble would be associated with a worn hub; all 3 sets of bearing races pressed in very tight.
In keeping with my pattern of throwing money at pesky problems and not looking forward to the trial & error of honing the spacer, I popped for a new hub. Much to my amazement, it solved my problem—zero wobble and zero torque steer. Still don't understand why it worked, but thanks for everyone's help.
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If you can isolate the play to the bearing/hub area before throwing new parts and $$$'s at it i would check the spacer length, its a whole lot cheaper (100% actually) and will also save a lot of labor changing everything over.
If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.
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I can't watch YouTube at work.
Now that I've seen the video I'd suggest taking the wheel off and waggling the disc - with that much free play you will have no problem getting to to wobble !
With the wheel off you will have a better view of where the play is occuring. I'm going to discount top arm, balljoints, or lower arm and say there is a colossal issue somewhere in the CV/bearing/drive flange/hub stack.
Check the splines on the CV and ensure that the drive flange slides all the way down, I've had problems in the past where the splines were poorly formed and prevented the bearing being preloaded.
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Have you checked the upper arm shaft bearings? Do the wobble check without wheel aand see if you detect relative motion anywhere.
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Cheers, Ian
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Cheers, Ian
I'm planning to attend the Portland, OR British Car Show and autocross in September and don't have much more time to fiddle with this. I've gotten some good tips on how to isolate the source of the play, including yours. I'll have another go at it, but if I strike out I'll have no choice but to continue to replace everything upstream, starting at the hub.
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The lower arm is located by bushes... this is usually where you get movement.
Cheers, Ian
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Have you checked the upper arm shaft bearings? Do the wobble check without wheel aand see if you detect relative motion anywhere.
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…so I'd suggest getting a new hub and building it up.
The idea is to find out what’s wrong and fix it .... not to keep throwing money at new parts in the hope that eventually the problem will go away ... probably when everything has been replaced. Except, these days, there’s no guarantee that the new parts will actually be better than the old ones
Ball joints, steering rod ends are easily tested..... and damaged hubs are kinda obvious (once disassembled).
I recently had my car rejected at its roadworthy inspection. They wanted me to fit new ball joints ..which I knew were relatively new and suitably tight. Turned out the movement was actually caused by dodgy lower arm inner bushes.
(IMHO.. the best way to find the wear is to hold each joint in your hand (wrap your hand around the joint) and have suitable assistant try to waggle the wheel. You can “feel” movement between the parts much more accurately than you can see it.
Cheers, Ian
PS has anyone done an accurate measurement of an unused Timken bearing??
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Have you checked the upper arm shaft bearings? Do the wobble check without wheel aand see if you detect relative motion anywhere.
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…so I'd suggest getting a new hub and building it up.
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They're not expensive in real money as the bearings and balljoints can be swapped from the old one to the new one with just a new set of seals, so I'd suggest getting a new hub and building it up.
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www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/318834-front-hubs-and-wheel-bearings/
Well that didn't work. Instead, use either link above and when it fails... manually delete "https://" from the address and hit enter again. The page should load.
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www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/318834-front-hubs-and-wheel-bearings/
Well that didn't work. Instead, use either link above and when it fails... manually delete "https://" from the address and hit enter again. The page should load.
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Here's some detailed info on Mini hubs and bearings, although not much is said about the spacer. [link]
The wobble you are seeing could be from two different causes: a) a hub where the shoulders are too close to each other (machined out of tolerance or worn/fretted away) or b) you received bearings where the spacer was too long.
If the two sets of bearings you are working with came out of the same production lot and the grinders were not set up correctly... it could just be the spacer length is wrong in both.
I would start by making a phone call to Steve Gibbs and asking him if he has any suggestions for how to fix the preload and how to measure the component stack-up. Were I still employed I would clean the parts, take them to work, and have them measured on our CMM. Ideally I would make those measurements on both a known good setup and one with the problem parts.
If you are lucky it might be as simple as lapping the spacers to take off the excessive length.
I am sure you've studied the parts diagrams at length already. Regardless, take a look at the front hub section view image linked below. Imagine part 11 (spacer) being too long. Then you can imagine how the spacer being too long would push the inner races (part 14) left and right creating clearance between the tapered rollers and the bearing races.
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Here's some detailed info on Mini hubs and bearings, although not much is said about the spacer. [link]
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For whatever reason the designers of the Mini took a different path. The preload on the Mini's wheel bearings is controlled by the tolerance of the stacked up parts. As you observed, the spacer is not a press fit on anything. It's inside and outside diameters can even be a little loose. However, the spacer is supposed to have a closely controlled length that is matched with a particular pair of bearings.
The idea with the Mini is that the outer races are fully seated on shoulders inside the bore of the hub. Tightening the castellated nut pulls all the components on the central axis together (rollers, inner races, and spacer) to create the preload. Everything has to be machined to tight tolerances. If the spacer is too short, tightening the castellated nut makes the preload too high and the bearings wear. Make the spacer too long and there is no preload and things can wobble. If the hub is worn (the bearing outside diameters are not a press fit OR the shoulders inside the hub are damaged) then the preload may not develop.
Somewhere there is probably a spec that says that with the spacer held between the two bearings with an axial load of "Y", the thickness of the stacked components should be "Z". I have never seen published values for Y or Z nor mention of how that would be held and measured. That's where the suggestion to shorten the spacer comes in. If the bearing outer races are fully seated in the hub and you have wobble, shortening the spacer may allow you to take up the axial play between the bearings and develop the preload. (Shorten the spacer and the two inner races move toward each other). However, as Malcolm mentioned, it wouold be trial and error to get the fit right. Whatever you do, do not take the spacer to a belt sander. The material removed is likely to be on the order of a few thousandths and the spacer's flat surfaces should be kept as parallel as possible. Contact Steve and see what he suggests.
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