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 Posted: Oct 8, 2018 10:56AM
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Thanks, I readjusted to three clicks and still holds. I have a 2x4 blocking the wheel so I can leave the hand brake off to save tension wear on the cable which I liken to an aircraft cable.

The '68 is an automatic with only a neutral gear, no park.

 Posted: Oct 8, 2018 12:53AM
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GB
I've always been taught that three allows the cable to go slack enough (when properly adjusted) to ensure that there is no pre-load on the brake shoes.  Any less and you run the risk of the cables not going totally floppy.  More and in the event of having to use the handbrake in anger and you don't have enough leverage to stop the car.

 Posted: Oct 7, 2018 02:35PM
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Right about the clicks, it's not an airplane is it? But I like the feel of the two clicks. 

If I were to play a recording back, on second thought, he probably meant the hand brake is not where you adjust the brakes. He was
super busy that day at the shop. I was talking about the over-all adjustment process including the hand brake and he probably thought the subject was only on the rear brake adjustment. So my quote is not admissible, strike that. He most-likely meant: "Never adjust the hand brake as a solution for excessive pedal travel. Only adjust at the shoes for that.

Mystery solved.

 Posted: Oct 7, 2018 01:43PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mediumcool
I adjusted my brakes by 1/4 turns of the adjuster until the wheel stopped spinning by hand, then backed off until the wheel would only free-spin 1 and 1/2 times before stopping. I even have a faint-red dot on the tire that helped with that. I measured the 1/4 turns by feeling the flat spot hit (or whatever, it may not be a flat spot, but that is what I call it so correct me if that is not the right term).

Then I pulled up the hand brake three clicks (could not click a 4th time) and tried to hand-spin the wheel. I could easily spin the wheels at three clicks even with the brakes adjusted correctly.

I adjusted each rear wheel separately (hence the two cables) at the hand brake until I could no longer turn the wheel with the hand brake applied (makes sense). 

I then released the hand brake and the wheel returned to the one and one-half revolution of free spin adjustment.

I did that and the brakes are working fine and I have solid hand brake at two clicks and pedal height feeling correct now.

My expert told me never to adjust the hand brake, but then why is it adjustable?

The mystery is, why he told me never to adjust the hand brake. This guy knows everything about Minis.
Maybe he told you never to do it because he thought you might mess it up??  He didn't say the handbrake should not be adjusted.....

You Guys do tend to obsess over unnecessary detail.... 2,3 or 4 clicks is not important.  I suggest that as long as its not 1 or 9 then whatever is OK... its just handbrake lever travel you're playing with. Its more about getting the tension (in the cable) even when applied rather than worrying about the amount of travel.

Cheers, Ian

 Posted: Oct 7, 2018 09:51AM
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The adjustment is there so the cables can be adjusted to compenste for wear or stretch in this case.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Oct 7, 2018 06:35AM
 Edited:  Oct 7, 2018 06:36AM
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I adjusted my brakes by 1/4 turns of the adjuster until the wheel stopped spinning by hand, then backed off until the wheel would only free-spin 1 and 1/2 times before stopping. I even have a faint-red dot on the tire that helped with that. I measured the 1/4 turns by feeling the flat spot hit (or whatever, it may not be a flat spot, but that is what I call it so correct me if that is not the right term).

Then I pulled up the hand brake three clicks (could not click a 4th time) and tried to hand-spin the wheel. I could easily spin the wheels at three clicks even with the brakes adjusted correctly.

I adjusted each rear wheel separately (hence the two cables) at the hand brake until I could no longer turn the wheel with the hand brake applied (makes sense). 

I then released the hand brake and the wheel returned to the one and one-half revolution of free spin adjustment.

I did that and the brakes are working fine and I have solid hand brake at two clicks and pedal height feeling correct now.

My expert told me never to adjust the hand brake, but then why is it adjustable?

The mystery is, why he told me never to adjust the hand brake. This guy knows everything about Minis.

 Posted: Sep 30, 2018 02:02PM
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That is what I have decided to do. Everything I think is right is disputed by more experienced Mini mechanics.

Mine Mini guy told me: "Don't touch anything, but bring her in next week and we'll sort it".  All the other mechanical work was
done there so that is probably a good idea for me. 

 Posted: Sep 30, 2018 12:31PM
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GB
Best you get a professional to work on your brakes from now on then if you genuinely believe yourself.

Seriously, you're wrong.

 Posted: Sep 30, 2018 09:47AM
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CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Moffet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Moffet
The handbrake cannot be adjusted anywhere but in the cabin. The rear brakes are adjusted with the both the rear adjusters and adjusting the handbrake. Adjusting the handbrake slack reduces the amount the shoes retract when the hydraulic brakes are released.
(I'd find a new authority.)

Sort of nearly but not quite.

The handbrake (or e-brake for the colonial types) has no effect at all on how far the rear shoes retract, that is controlled by the adjusters on the back plate.  When the rear brakes are adjusted it affects the footbrake and the handbrake.  Other than a slightly longer pedal, the first sign of the rears needing adjusting is the handbrake coming up more than three clicks.
With the rears adjusted correctly the handbrake cable(s) may need to be adjusted depending on how worn the shoes are to obtain three-click engagement, but usually is left alone.

By your description, even with the adjusters set to spec, worn shoes will produce increased slack in the cables - more than the desired (typically) 3 clicks. The "return spring, cylinder end" holds the shoe ends against the ends of the "brake lever arm", to which the cable is attached.  When one does adjust the cable to 3 clicks, it pulls on the brake lever arm, pushing the shoes outward to contact the drum (clicks engaged). The shoes are therefore adjusted by the handbrake cable. When the hydraulic brakes are applied, the tips of the pistons come into contact with the shoes and force them against the drum. When the hydraulic brakes are released the return spring, cylinder end pulls the shoes away, pushing the pistons back into the cylinder, but only as far as the brake lever arm will allow. If all is working properly, the pistons don't go back any further. So, this adjustment would affect pedal height, even if only a small amount.
Just no.

Go and dismantle your brakes, play with them a bit, have a rethink, then come back.
I did.
That's how I know how they work.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Sep 30, 2018 03:00AM
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GB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Moffet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Moffet
The handbrake cannot be adjusted anywhere but in the cabin. The rear brakes are adjusted with the both the rear adjusters and adjusting the handbrake. Adjusting the handbrake slack reduces the amount the shoes retract when the hydraulic brakes are released.
(I'd find a new authority.)

Sort of nearly but not quite.

The handbrake (or e-brake for the colonial types) has no effect at all on how far the rear shoes retract, that is controlled by the adjusters on the back plate.  When the rear brakes are adjusted it affects the footbrake and the handbrake.  Other than a slightly longer pedal, the first sign of the rears needing adjusting is the handbrake coming up more than three clicks.
With the rears adjusted correctly the handbrake cable(s) may need to be adjusted depending on how worn the shoes are to obtain three-click engagement, but usually is left alone.

By your description, even with the adjusters set to spec, worn shoes will produce increased slack in the cables - more than the desired (typically) 3 clicks. The "return spring, cylinder end" holds the shoe ends against the ends of the "brake lever arm", to which the cable is attached.  When one does adjust the cable to 3 clicks, it pulls on the brake lever arm, pushing the shoes outward to contact the drum (clicks engaged). The shoes are therefore adjusted by the handbrake cable. When the hydraulic brakes are applied, the tips of the pistons come into contact with the shoes and force them against the drum. When the hydraulic brakes are released the return spring, cylinder end pulls the shoes away, pushing the pistons back into the cylinder, but only as far as the brake lever arm will allow. If all is working properly, the pistons don't go back any further. So, this adjustment would affect pedal height, even if only a small amount.
Just no.

Go and dismantle your brakes, play with them a bit, have a rethink, then come back.

 Posted: Sep 29, 2018 11:26AM
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CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Moffet
The handbrake cannot be adjusted anywhere but in the cabin. The rear brakes are adjusted with the both the rear adjusters and adjusting the handbrake. Adjusting the handbrake slack reduces the amount the shoes retract when the hydraulic brakes are released.
(I'd find a new authority.)

Sort of nearly but not quite.

The handbrake (or e-brake for the colonial types) has no effect at all on how far the rear shoes retract, that is controlled by the adjusters on the back plate.  When the rear brakes are adjusted it affects the footbrake and the handbrake.  Other than a slightly longer pedal, the first sign of the rears needing adjusting is the handbrake coming up more than three clicks.
With the rears adjusted correctly the handbrake cable(s) may need to be adjusted depending on how worn the shoes are to obtain three-click engagement, but usually is left alone.

By your description, even with the adjusters set to spec, worn shoes will produce increased slack in the cables - more than the desired (typically) 3 clicks. The "return spring, cylinder end" holds the shoe ends against the ends of the "brake lever arm", to which the cable is attached.  When one does adjust the cable to 3 clicks, it pulls on the brake lever arm, pushing the shoes outward to contact the drum (clicks engaged). The shoes are therefore adjusted by the handbrake cable. When the hydraulic brakes are applied, the tips of the pistons come into contact with the shoes and force them against the drum. When the hydraulic brakes are released the return spring, cylinder end pulls the shoes away, pushing the pistons back into the cylinder, but only as far as the brake lever arm will allow. If all is working properly, the pistons don't go back any further. So, this adjustment would affect pedal height, even if only a small amount.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Sep 28, 2018 07:08PM
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US
Three, but two or four will work. Just remember what you started with. Say it was three. One day you go to four. That's a good time to adjust the rear brakes.

 Posted: Sep 28, 2018 06:02PM
 Edited:  Sep 28, 2018 06:26PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mediumcool
Good then, the hand brake comes up three-clicks solid.
I am off to the show in the morning. I also have a wood block recommended by the Aussie
Mini mechanic I met there the last time. I am over-cautious, but just in case.
I’m not sure about this so check Haynes or Autobook but I believe it’s two clicks.

 I would check this myself but I’m on vacation in Texas

 Posted: Sep 28, 2018 07:25AM
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Good then, the hand brake comes up three-clicks solid.
I am off to the show in the morning. I also have a wood block recommended by the Aussie
Mini mechanic I met there the last time. I am over-cautious, but just in case.

 Posted: Sep 28, 2018 12:07AM
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GB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Moffet
The handbrake cannot be adjusted anywhere but in the cabin. The rear brakes are adjusted with the both the rear adjusters and adjusting the handbrake. Adjusting the handbrake slack reduces the amount the shoes retract when the hydraulic brakes are released.
(I'd find a new authority.)

Sort of nearly but not quite.

The handbrake (or e-brake for the colonial types) has no effect at all on how far the rear shoes retract, that is controlled by the adjusters on the back plate.  When the rear brakes are adjusted it affects the footbrake and the handbrake.  Other than a slightly longer pedal, the first sign of the rears needing adjusting is the handbrake coming up more than three clicks.
With the rears adjusted correctly the handbrake cable(s) may need to be adjusted depending on how worn the shoes are to obtain three-click engagement, but usually is left alone.

 Posted: Sep 27, 2018 01:35PM
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I'm with you on this Dan. Otherwise why would there be the adjusting nuts?

I am finding out how to take advice, but sift it out and keep the gold.  

Everyone I am finding has some good advice and I only recently stopped
calling my Mini a "Mini Cooper" so a lot is due to my learning curve. 

 Posted: Sep 27, 2018 01:15PM
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CA
The handbrake cannot be adjusted anywhere but in the cabin. The rear brakes are adjusted with the both the rear adjusters and adjusting the handbrake. Adjusting the handbrake slack reduces the amount the shoes retract when the hydraulic brakes are released.
(I'd find a new authority.)

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Sep 27, 2018 10:20AM
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I discovered the second cable so there are two. I just had to peel back the carpet. I read about this procedure and it described a single cable adjustment. They must have been refering to a later model and I just didn't check further after seeing one of them. My bad.

 Posted: Sep 27, 2018 12:04AM
 Edited:  Sep 27, 2018 12:04AM
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Built in Longbridge June 1968. Delivered to a Surrey dealership and sold to the first owner in July '68. I am checking the cable again in the morning. I am sure it was a single cable, but could be wrong about that.

Also, I was wrong about the new brakes. I received what I assumed were used shoes in a box when I bought it and probably assumed they were the old ones. Now that I see them, they seem to be new ones ready to be installed. So my facts are probably not straight and I apologize.

 Posted: Sep 26, 2018 11:26PM
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US
where was the car built?  Oz cars had mods that did not appear on UK cars until later if ever sometimes. Like external door hindges with roll up windows and fly windows.  Take a look at your wiper motor and boot latch for dates. Also is it rod change shifter or remote?  Maybe the car was reshelled due to rust or a crash.

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