synthetic oil in a fresh build 1300
Orig. Posting Date | User Name | Edit Date |
Jun 21, 2017 10:41AM | Richard1 | |
Jun 21, 2017 10:16AM | swindrum | |
Jun 21, 2017 05:11AM | Richard1 | |
Jun 21, 2017 05:03AM | onetim | |
Jun 21, 2017 04:26AM | Richard1 | |
Jun 20, 2017 05:05PM | Rosebud | Edited: Jun 20, 2017 05:06PM |
Jun 20, 2017 02:47PM | Richard1 | |
Jun 20, 2017 01:16PM | swindrum | |
Jun 19, 2017 08:03PM | Rosebud | |
Jun 19, 2017 07:57PM | Minimike1 | |
Jun 19, 2017 05:18PM | Rosebud | Edited: Jun 19, 2017 06:10PM |
Jun 19, 2017 04:58PM | Minimike1 | |
Jun 19, 2017 04:21PM | Rosebud | Edited: Jun 19, 2017 04:21PM |
Jun 19, 2017 03:39PM | bluedragon | |
Jun 19, 2017 03:05PM | Rosebud | |
Jun 19, 2017 10:39AM | swindrum | |
Jun 19, 2017 10:31AM | Alex | |
Jun 19, 2017 07:38AM | onetim | |
Jun 19, 2017 06:30AM | mystacreation | |
Jun 18, 2017 08:16PM | Minimike1 |
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I presume you mean Mobil 1.
But the only Diesel formulation Mobil 1 has is their "Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck". The rest of their diesel oils come under their Delvac line of oils. Most Mobil 1 oils are gasoline formulas that you do not want.
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Sean Windrum
1996 MGF VVC
1970 1275 GT Racer
66 Austin Countryman
63 997 Cooper (Under Construction)
63 MG 1100
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Mobil Delvac MXF2 API CI-4 PLUS, Gas & Diesel use 15W-40 conventional
Castrol GTX Diesel API CJ4, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CS, SL or SLSJ Gas & Diesel use 15W-40 conventional.
The Mobil site says its for high performance gas, extreme pressure, high zinc.
On the right track here?
Yes, that is the right track. Also: Chevron's Delo, Shell's Rotella, etc.
A good place to look (other than Amazon) is a store that caters to the diesel pickup crowd.
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Mobil Delvac MXF2 API CI-4 PLUS, Gas & Diesel use 15W-40 conventional
Castrol GTX Diesel API CJ4, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CS, SL or SLSJ Gas & Diesel use 15W-40 conventional.
The Mobil site says its for high performance gas, extreme pressure, high zinc.
On the right track here?
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...but with the full syn, the synchros are lasting way longer and the shifts are buttery smooth.
I'm referring to Diesel, both for synthetic or mineral. IGNORE all gasoline spec oils. Ignore SN or SN/CF. Go for CI-4, CI-4/SN, CJ-4/SN, etc. (that is because the rules allow you to put an applicable gasoline spec to the left of a diesel spec in case you don't have a modern catalytic converter and want to run one oil in all.) I'm betting that all of the people with problems with synthetics are using gasoline engine oils. Don't get me wrong, SN oils are great for modern cars. They are so slippery that they improve mileage and reduce wear in modern engines. But they are real bad for higher pressures and for stopping synchronizers.
Your comment on less crunch with conventional 5W-50 confuses me, as there are no 5W-50 mineral oils that I know of. That would be a huge amount of VI improvers that would get torn up in the transmission.
For those that want to dig deeper into this, I suggest this link //www.widman.biz/Corvair/English/Links/Oil.html . It was originally written for other classics, but applies even more to Mini's with the transmission issue. That page is an introduction to the pdf that explains it all.
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...but with the full syn, the synchros are lasting way longer and the shifts are buttery smooth.
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1. A gasoline engine oil API SN is what causes the sychronizers to slip. It has nothing to with synthetic or mineral. It is the energy conserving additives that make it more slippery. So you should look for a diesel formulation. Diesel formulations (CI-4, CJ-4) not only have high enough zinc for our engines, but normally will pass GL-4 gear testing and MA1 friction tests (good for synchronizers).
2. Synthetics do not soften seals more than mineral oils. There are tests they have to pass for solvency and softening All SN oils must pass the same tests. A High Mileage oil may contain some softening synthetics added, but you won't find them in a Diesel formulation. There is often confusion when the synthetic is thinner than the mineral oil (by spec), that people blame on the fact that it was synthetic, not the viscosity (a 5W-50 is thinner at room temp than 20W-50).
3. For most people, with an engine and transmission in good shape, a 15W-40 will work better than a 20W-50. I'd say 10W-40, but you probably won't find 10W-40 for diesels. 5W-40 would be an ideal synthetic.
4. If your Mini has an automatic transmission: forget everything you have read in this post and buy 10W-40 Motorcycle oil that meets JASO MA2 specs.
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I agree, it does fly in the face of what you would expect, but with the full syn, the synchros are lasting way longer and the shifts are buttery smooth. We used to tell the team to live without 2nd gear because the gear change would always crunch. We were starting to get low on synchros and good 2nd gears, not to mention the particles being crunched off and sent into the oil flow. We have the confidence to use 2nd gear now and after 3 races, (x 14 hours each) and a track day, the shift is as smooth as ever with no crunch.
Sean Windrum
1996 MGF VVC
1970 1275 GT Racer
66 Austin Countryman
63 997 Cooper (Under Construction)
63 MG 1100
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iIm thinking I"ll stay with conventional 20-5. the engine design is from the 40's. and worked well with conventional oil for a good 50 years until they stopped making the mini.
Meanwhile, no reason to ask for issues. When it's got some high miles, I'll think about syn.
1) More and bigger oil leaks. Those slippery little synthetic oil molecules seem to find ways out of an engine that conventional oil does not.
2) Our synchros don't work as well. Again, synthetic is too slippery to allow the synchros to get a good bite.
3) Synthetic is expensive.
Regarding using synthetic on a high mileage engine, I'd say do just the opposite. Synthetic when new and the engine tolerances are much tighter. Use conventional oil after the engine has become sloppy and loose—if only because the cost vs. benefit ratio of synthetic makes less sense in an older engine that will require a rebuild soon anyway.
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wondering , did Rover ever sell the cars off the lot with synthetic oil?
Meanwhile, no reason to ask for issues. When it's got some high miles, I'll think about syn.
thanks for the discussion and carry on. I'm sure there's many more opinions I and others would like to hear.
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4) Synchro wear - as already stated, how does lower friction cause synchros to wear out? If they do, I'd like to understand the mechanism.
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1) Synthetics resist breakdown longer and can endure higher temperatures and pressures. This is because they don't require as much in the way of additives to gain multi-viscosity properties. The additives break down over time, heat, and pressure. The oil doesn't (which is why it can be recycled.) How is this bad for an A-series motor?
2) Synthetics have lower friction. How can this be bad for an A-series motor? It doesn't matter that the transmission and engine share oil. Minis have a dry clutch, so the lower friction won't affect clutch properties unlike most motorcycles. (they require special synthetics with friction modifiers for wet clutches.) A more durable oil would seem to be an asset.
3) Leakage - synthetic oil does have a powerful detergent cleaning effect. On old, well-used engines, seals shrink, but gunk buildup helps keep them plugged up. But the synthetic detergent effect would clean the gunk out of the seals and cause leaks in the early days. Nowadays the oil has seal swelling compounds to compensate for this, but I'd still agree there's still some possibility of causing leakage. But the leakage is because crud is being cleaned out of your motor.
4) Synchro wear - as already stated, how does lower friction cause synchros to wear out? If they do, I'd like to understand the mechanism.
In fact, some synthetic motor oils qualfy as GL-3 transmission oil, and if they were more viscous (90w) they could be GL-4 oils. Brass synchros go bad if there's sulfur in the oil (a common transmission additive) but usually motor oil doesn't have much sulfur.
5) Zinc - ah, the biggest red herring IMHO (and I know I'm in the minority here.) This came up in the early 2000's when various cam makers noticed excessive wear. They then noticed declining zinc levels, put 2+2 together and IMHO came up with 3. It is more likely that the failures were due to poor quality outsourcing of valvetrain components, which picked up steam during that decade.
Yes, zinc (ZDDP) combats wear. But more is not necessarily better. More doesn't create a thicker coating with more protection. It's more like a vitamin. It floats in the oil, and where there is pressure and heat from surfaces with friction, it then bonds to those areas.
Just like a vitamin, taking 10x the daily dose doesn't do anything for you. Your body just gets rid of the excess when you visit the little boys (or girls) room. Excess ZDDP in oil just floats around unused.
If you get your oil tested when it's changed, and it shows little to no ZDDP, then you probably could use a formulation with more ZDDP in it. But if there's some left (and the testing agencies probably will point this out) then there's no need for more.
I used synthetic originally in my Mini, switched to conventional for a couple of oil changes after hearing the scare stories, then switched back after I thought about it. No excessive wear, 40,000+ miles logged, and only the usual #2 synchro starting to show signs of needing work. When I was climbing out in my Mini from Amarillo, TX to Denver CO in June, I was mighty thankful to have Redline synthetic in my crankcase. Water temperatures were getting in the upper quadrant of the gauge, but oil temps, while rising, stayed well within the acceptable limits (and I don't have an oil cooler.)
The max temp limit for a synthetic oil is considerably higher than for a conventional of the same viscosity range. Good insurance IMHO if hitting an unexpected high temp high load situation.
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Hmm... the same super-lubrication that synthetic provides keeps the synchros from "biting in" also keeps the synchros from wearing out? Makes sense to me. Of course the downside is the excessive wear on the gears every time the synchros allow the gears to crunch. With the trans and motor sharing the same oil, all of those metallic particles from the crunching gears cycles through the motor. On the other hand, if you change oil every 900 miles it's a win-win for a race car, but of course expensive for a daily driver. Thank you "swindrum" for a different perspective.
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Sean Windrum
1996 MGF VVC
1970 1275 GT Racer
66 Austin Countryman
63 997 Cooper (Under Construction)
63 MG 1100
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Being politically incorrect, it's sh*t and has cost me two engines.
By all accounts they have lost their head petrochemist, and things ain't what they used to be...
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Now with Tetrahydrozoline!, to get the red out!, Now with Retsin!, for fresh breath, Oxyclean! for all your iodine stains! ETC
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https://kendallmotoroil.com/product/gt-1-competition-motor-oil-with-liquid-titanium
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20 50?
Found 33 Messages