Minimans - you are absolutely correct. The thrust washer was indeed the wrong way around. Once corrected, the primary gear spins beautifully with the C lip/washer tightly in place. I cant believe that such a boneheaded mistake caused so much work to correct. At least there is no apparent damage and I have the excuse to replace a couple more parts.
Many thanks
Steve

I think you may well have the inner thrust washer on backwards? one side has a distinct taper on the inner edge, this must go toward the crank thrust face, it is to allow the washer to seat up against the face due to the small radius at the root. Also check the 'C' washer and plain washer are dead flat, place them on a piece of glass or granite work surface and check for rocking. If this all fails to increase the clearance then get your michrometers out and get the appropriate thrust washer.

In your case, it probably won't help, but take the short amount of time to flip the U ("C") part of the end washer duo and check the gap, again. Make sure the thrust washer on the other end has the tapered side placed correctly, too.

When going back together, you can leave out the two hardest bolts to work with holding the clutch cover to the flywheel housing. For next time!

I found the problem but I am not sure of the best fix. Mur was the closest. My primary gear was binding against the "C" washer/clip and would not move. Removing the clip allows the gear to spin freely. Stupidly, I did not check the clearance during assembly as I assumed that as I had not changed any thrust washers, clearance would not change. Now I know.

So....I did manage to get the clutch cover/flywheel off without removing the engine but I might as well have because the only thing left holding it in now are the drive shafts and what a bugger it was getting to a few of those clutch cover bolts.

I could probably get away with grinding the clearance off the back of the "C" clip but as I am so close to pulling the engine I might as well do it right and go after the correct thrust washer behind the primary gear. I can also check the condition of the primary gear bushes while I am about it.

Thanks for all of the input - I can sleep better now I know what the problem is
Steve

That is a scary thought....it would explain the symptoms though. I will know soon enough as I plan to pull the flywheel/clutch assembly tomorrow.
Steve

I suspect that you have a broken primary gear bushing, possibly from the flywheel crushing the retaining ring.

Other issues could be coming up, such as crankshaft thrust washers failing because of messing about with a maladjusted clutch.

I did remove and check the arm and plunger. There is a very small amount of wear on the ball but once in the plunger, I can detect almost no free play before the plunger moves. The arm itself appears straight as a die with no visible damage. I am kicking myself for not replacing all of these parts while the engine was out.

Before I pull the engine, I will remove the clutch cover to inspect and replace the arm, pressure plate, plunger and thrust bearing. I was trying to avoid pulling the flywheel but unless I can see something obvious it will have to come out if only to grease the primary gear.

Thanks for all of the feedback,
Steve 

I had that problem on my 1989 Dodge Caravan with the 4 cyl Turbo and Getrag 5 speed manual transmission. T'he clutch had a tendency to drag when cold. I suspected the splines of the clutch plate did not have quite enough tolerance and would bind slightly on the gearbox input shaft and not slide clear of the flywheel, resulting in drag until everything warmed up and loosened up.

I was baffled by a similar problem. Unfortunately, I made several changes to things that could conceivably be related—I installed new carpet & soundproofing, removed and reinstalled the peddle box, etc. Never a good idea to change multiple things when troubleshooting, eh? All of a sudden I didn't have enough peddle travel to fully disengage the clutch. I bled the clutch hydraulics, installed a new slave cylinder and bled again and installed an adjustable slave cylinder push rod. Nothing helped. Finally I yanked the clutch arm and plunger assembly and discovered that the ball end of the arm had cracked. A 1/32' displacement of the ball is all it took to render my clutch useless. 

I replaced the arm and plunger assembly with a more robust aftermarket stainless arm and plunger. Problem solved. Good luck! Hope it's something that simple.

More news right off the presses. It seems that the clutch hydraulics are a complete red herring. I temporarily extended the push rod length by slipping a 5/16 socket over the end and also replaced the stop screw with one a quarter inch longer. Now I can separate the clutch so far that it will slip badly when in gear.

Now for the bad news. The car still creeps forward with the clutch fully depressed when idling and it is impossible to put the car in gear with the engine running. At this point, I am resigned to pulling the engine again to investigate further.


My gut tells me the new clutch plate is binding on the primary gear but any other ideas from this august group are eagerly sought. While I have the engine out, I will replace the pressure plate, thrust race and plunger

Just one little test....  do you have the return spring that connects the top of the clutch arm???

If so, try running without it for a while...

"...It is tempting to temporarily take up some of the slack by screwing out the stop bolt/locking nut on the adjuster arm and extending the push rod..... "

There is a very simple test to determine whether extending the slave push rod will have any effect.  Peel back the slave dust boot and have an able assistant floor the clutch pedal.  Does the slave piston come up against the C clip at the outer end of the slave bore? If so, by all means extend the push rod.  If it doesn't extending the rod will have absolutely zero effect....

Cheers, Ian

I guess I wasn't clear about either item.

Did you take the arm out and check the ball on the end...and how worn the hole is?

Parts are not the same as when .020" was set up. I find few that work at the amount. Of course, going too far will force the throw out bearing to spin all the time. One or two full turns shouldn't let it spin, but once you have cleared or replaced the arm and you still need a little more lift on the pedal when connecting/disconnection, make the turns.

...... also, don't press on the clutch pedal when starting a classic MINI.... start in neutral always

Thanks for the responses. The more I think about this, the more it seems like the problem is that the master is not pushing enough fluid. I got back under the steering column and can see that part of the top of the clutch pedal is bottoming against the bulkhead. This might have the effect of reducing the stroke. I will use a Birmingham persuader and bar to depress the bulkhead section by the 1/8" required to let the pedal return to its stop. The pedal seems to be a fraction higher than the brake pedal when at rest. Minimans - I cant see if there is a gasket under the master, but if not, it would have the same effect you noted.

If all else fails, I will extend the actuator arm adjustment bolt. I would rather avoid doing this as it is likely that the thrust bearing will then be spinning when it shouldn't be. The actuator arm looks to be in good order and I cannot detect abnormal free play in the plunger. I will report back after further investigation,

Steve

A couple of things...

It appears that the changed parts helped. You didn't mention if the arm was changed. They bend (and crack at the bottom) and the ball on the bottom wears flat on the pushing side.

The .020" set up for the arm clearance was real good in the olde days when parts were all well made. I now treat it as a starting place. Go ahead and move the bolt out 6 flats...or 12, if need be...once you've checked out/changed the arm.

Do you have the plate and gasket under the master cylinder? if one or both are missing you will get limited pedal travel? I ask because you said it's the same as it was before the new clutch?

Back from my homeland and a great visit to the seaside towns of Yorkshire!

My new clutch slave is installed along with the braided pipe from hard line to slave cylinder. I also replaced all of the clevis pins and then bled the clutch system. For good measure, I also checked and reset the "large nut" clearance to 1/8" (though I can get no further arm travel when the large nuts are backed right out) and the actuating arm to stop clearance at 0.020". This is of course a pre-verto clutch and I have installed a new plate.

Despite all of this, my clutch barely separates and takes up immediately at the floor. With the engine running I cannot shift into gear but can now start the engine with the clutch pedal on the floor. Carpets and underfelt are out of the car. I should also add that the previous clutch would only disengage right at the floor but I wrongly assumed that the replacement parts would solve this issue. I do know that the MG1100 from which the engine originally came, has a different clutch master and wonder if it moved a greater fluid volume than the Minis

At this point, I am thinking that the problem is play in the arm to plunger which will of course necessitate removing the housing cover. Does anybody have any ideas to avoid this? It is tempting to temporarily take up some of the slack by screwing out the stop bolt/locking nut on the adjuster arm and extending the push rod.....

All advice gratefully received
Steve

Look at the throwout stop and it's lock nut. If this is maladjusted then the throw portion of the clutch cannot happen.

Thanks Ian.

No I did not remove the straps, just one bolt each. I took a look at the rubber pipe this morning. Blocked solid - I just didn't know if I caused an aneurysm by standing on the pedal or if it died during the short time the engine was out and the pipe kinked by tying back the slave cylinder. I did try to get a socket and long bar on the actuation arm, but the angle was working against me. Waiting on replacement parts but hope to know for certain before I leave for the UK next week...

The oil pressure is a bit high for comfort but engine was cold and running on choke with new 20/50 oil in it so I will give it a few miles to settle down before adjusting the bypass
Steve

Sorry Steve.. I'll blame Apple auto correct..for steps read straps...

You are right in that the straps only go one way ..if you want the clutch to work..  However, if you had undone the straps at the flywheel end, it is possible to put them back wrong way round (don't ask me how i know  And if you do the whole clutch is locked solid...

I can't remember the normal clutch clamping pressure but its pretty high ....something in excess  of 500 lbs (??) to compress the diaphragm.  Do the math to work out how much load you need on the top of the clutch arm (or a suitable extension) to move the other end of the clutch arm that sits on the release bearing.  I'm guessing that the lower end of the clutch arm lever is around 2" (maybe a bit less) so if you can extend the top of the arm to 20" (drop a suitably sized piece of pipe over it???) then you would only need a pull of 50lb ish to move the release bearing.....

I'd drop the oil pressure back a bit as well...

Cheers, Ian