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 Posted: May 14, 2017 12:05PM
BS
Total posts: 119
Last post: May 14, 2017
Member since:Feb 25, 1999
US
Ok, I didn't check if slave piston was hitting the retaining clip, but adjustable pushrod cured the problem.
And yes, there is clearance on the overthrow stop nuts, otherwise the pushrod change would have had no effect on operation.
Also, I had calipers with me and it only took .050 longer adjustment on my pushrod to get a reasonable engagement on
Barb's clutch. If you read my previous post, I had changed everything on my car, including clutch, pressure plate, and throwout bearing
and it still barely disengaged. Maybe it says something about replacement parts tolerances.
Malcolm, I agree that a complete disassembly and inspection of all the pivots may turn up a wear problem, but for the amount of use that the Moke will probably see, I think the adjustable slave pushrod is the easiest and cheapest fix.
Bill

 Posted: May 14, 2017 08:16AM
Total posts: 7059
Last post: Jul 28, 2017
Member since:Feb 7, 2006
Sill say you should check the clutch arm and pivot points for wear, by installing the longer push rod on the slave you are just compensating for the wear and as stated it does not take much wear to become non functional. You may want to try pumping the clutch first to see if it bites at the regular height, if it does then you may have an internally collapsed slave hose.
Regarding the miss fire it is probably ignition related if you are still using points check the gap or the condenser could be failing, clogged fuel filters usually make a car bog down more than an actual miss fire.

If in doubt, flat out . Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

 Posted: May 13, 2017 09:49PM
Total posts: 1352
Last post: Jul 24, 2017
Member since:Oct 18, 2011
"......this was just one more thing for her to try to cope with. therefore simplest solution was a slightly longer pushrod..."

Wonder what else you did??

.... a longer slave pushrod is ONLY of use if the slave piston is hitting the outer clip retainer when the pedal is depressed.  The need for one is easily checked by peeling back the rubber dirt seal at the end of the slave and watching the piston move while someone presses the clutch pedal.  Does the piston run into the stop clip?? 

If it does then go ahead and get a longer push rod...

If it doesn't then a longer rod will have absolutely zero effect.  All it does is push the slave piston slightly further into the cylinder....

A short pushrod has exactly the same effect as having insufficient clearance for the overthrow nuts ..

Good luck, Ian

 Posted: May 13, 2017 08:40PM
Total posts: 211
Last post: Jul 20, 2017
Member since:Sep 15, 2015
I didn't so much as speak too soon.  Unfortunately on an errand today with my cousin driving the car, I decided to put 5 bucks in the tank.  That probably stirred up junk that was in the tank from the long winter's nap.  Going to replace the fuel filter because the car started misfiring.  It began misfiring at high RPM going uphill just as he got it into 4th.  On a good note thanks to Bill, cousin Mike said the brakes were much better than they have ever been since he started driving the car.  And waiting about 6 weeks won't work because we actually have to trailer "Barb" down to MME.  She also wants to take it to the Mid-Ohio Vintage weekend.  Which is the weekend right before MME.    

 Posted: May 13, 2017 02:08PM
BS
Total posts: 119
Last post: May 14, 2017
Member since:Feb 25, 1999
US
I'm the friend who brought the adjustable pushrod for Matt to try on 'Barb'.
Robin had thick rubber mats protecting the floors, and with these in place it was all
I could do to push the clutch in enough for clean shifts. Removing the mat from under
the pedal improved disengagement, but the clutch started to bite with the slightest lift
of the pedal. I was able to get used to it, but Matt's Mom had never driven a manual
tranny before, and this was just one more thing for her to try to cope with.
therefore simplest solution was a slightly longer pushrod. I did check clearances on
throw-out and stop and they were fine.
On my own car, after I had CooperTune rebuild my tranny, I replaced clutch master
and slave cylinders, operating lever, throw-out plunger, pushrod, pivot pins, and added a
braided flex hose. Ended up with same clutch symptoms as 'Barb', hence I made my own
adjustable pushrod and have had no clutch problems since.
For what it's worth, I have been driving Mini's since 1980,(daily driver between 1980 and 2000,
until I decided I like good heating and AC on my daily driver),
and this is the first one that I couldn't get a decent operating clutch with standard parts.
Bill

 Posted: May 13, 2017 08:36AM
Total posts: 9372
Last post: Jul 25, 2017
Member since:Mar 24, 1999
GB
If you can bear to wait 6 weeks and are coming to MME, I'm sure there are plenty of us who'd be delighted to take a look at it for you.

Metric is for people who can't do fractions...

 Posted: May 13, 2017 07:29AM
Total posts: 3398
Last post: Jul 28, 2017
Member since:Oct 8, 2011
US
A deep clutch seems to be an issue with replacement master cyls. I remove the clutch pedal cut it part way recrank it about 1 inch. Have it welded back by a certified welder and there I am with clutch engagement 1 inch from the floor. I like a clutch you just have to dab to release. When I have time I may make an adjustable master push rod. Don't want the piston to cover the hole for the drain back. Once again we are dealing with ratios and lost motion. Better yet figure the difference between the one coming out and the one going in. Steve (CTR)

 Posted: May 12, 2017 06:29PM
Total posts: 211
Last post: Jul 20, 2017
Member since:Sep 15, 2015
I know you guys are trying to help.  I don't really know how to describe the issue.  Mere MM off of the floor and the clutch starts to grab.  It hasn't given her enough time to ease on the gas.  (I hope that is right.)  If she practices more with the adjusted clutch pushrod, then we have accomplished something.  And yes I could have made my own adjustable pushrod, but it is one of those things that it's easier if it is already done.

 Posted: May 12, 2017 05:50AM
Total posts: 423
Last post: Jul 28, 2017
Member since:Jul 25, 2000
US
You could always make an adjustable one by just taking off the push rod, put on threads and add a coupler and a stop nut and away you go!
I did that only once, but it worked on that car for a long long time.

Peter - 65 UK Moke , 63 Healey 3000, 60 Bugeye Sprite, 01 BMW M Coupe.  email:  prbraun1@gmail.com

 

 Posted: May 12, 2017 05:29AM
Total posts: 7059
Last post: Jul 28, 2017
Member since:Feb 7, 2006
If Mom is having trouble depressing the clutch the non verto clutch which was original in a UK Moke is a lot harder to press than a later verto clutch where it required around 30% less effort to press.
Most of the harder to operate problems stem from lack of lubrication (if any) and wear on the linkage points. You need to make sure all these are in order along with the correct adjustment before fitting an adjustable slave rod. Fitting an adjustable slave rod is usually just compensating for wear and does not change the amount of effort required. It does not take too much wear (thousandths) on the linkage pivot points and clutch arm to render a clutch hard to use or inoperative due to the decreased travel.

If in doubt, flat out . Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

 Posted: May 11, 2017 05:40PM
Total posts: 211
Last post: Jul 20, 2017
Member since:Sep 15, 2015
One of our friends brought his adjustable pushrod and it was about 50 thousandths longer.  All this to make it a little bit easier for Mom to hopefully use the car.

 Posted: May 11, 2017 04:51AM
Total posts: 3398
Last post: Jul 28, 2017
Member since:Oct 8, 2011
US
Peter, I hope you are well and continue to be. I recently realized I'm not the man I once was try as I may. Hope no one tells my wife. I'm about to assemble a pre verto clutch assembly don't look forward to it. Taking out of service a coil spring clutch. 

maj4479 have you tugged on the arm and checked the free play at the 1/4 fine stop bolt? Steve (CTR)

PS recall doing the tranny think engine was done up there. It was a long time ago. Don't recall clutch type, would think they would use diaphram which would be correct for year. 

 Posted: May 10, 2017 05:26AM
Total posts: 211
Last post: Jul 20, 2017
Member since:Sep 15, 2015
We just ordered an adjustable slave cylinder pushrod.  The consensus is that about 50 thousandths will help with the ease of using this clutch.

 Posted: May 10, 2017 04:16AM
Total posts: 423
Last post: Jul 28, 2017
Member since:Jul 25, 2000
US
Steve, you do great work - that motor is sweet and the tranny like new!  I might have to get myself a rebuild as well, but that's a different story!

Peter - 65 UK Moke , 63 Healey 3000, 60 Bugeye Sprite, 01 BMW M Coupe.  email:  prbraun1@gmail.com

 

 Posted: May 10, 2017 03:28AM
Total posts: 3398
Last post: Jul 28, 2017
Member since:Oct 8, 2011
US
I'm very pleased to say I worked with Zip and Peter on what are two of the top line Mokes. I'm currently working another 850 for a early car. Finding everything required is getting tougher. Steve (CTR)

 Posted: May 10, 2017 01:44AM
Total posts: 423
Last post: Jul 28, 2017
Member since:Jul 25, 2000
US
Maybe that low compression engine helps in firing up. Keep it running! We can do photos of the twins next month! :;

Peter - 65 UK Moke , 63 Healey 3000, 60 Bugeye Sprite, 01 BMW M Coupe.  email:  prbraun1@gmail.com

 

 Posted: May 9, 2017 04:55PM
Total posts: 47
Last post: Jul 5, 2017
Member since:Mar 8, 2013
I am excited you are keeping the car.  Whatever you need to do to drive it you will always remember the great guy that put it together.  

Dan 

 Posted: May 9, 2017 07:51AM
Total posts: 149
Last post: Jul 28, 2017
Member since:Sep 16, 2015
I wish he was here and I could stop over and shoot the breeze about all things mokes and minis. 

 Posted: May 9, 2017 06:08AM
Total posts: 211
Last post: Jul 20, 2017
Member since:Sep 15, 2015
You know I have to give my late father credit.  After the long winter slumber, "Barb" fired right up.  Nothing needed but a bit of choke and a once over to make sure.  I had to keep choke for a lot longer than I am comfortable with but that is more or less the deceptively cold temperatures with sunny skies.  That car was rebuilt by an engineer for sure.